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<p>[QUOTE="Houseman, post: 4145, member: 7"]</p><p>I don't consider that to be very impressive, since that happened over a hundred years ago, and since it's based on what is largely his own word. I mean, he was explicitly commanded to not show the plates to anyone else, right? And you can't say that anything was "perfectly translated" unless you can verify it. What's to stop me from making up gibberish, claiming that's it's some ancient language, and "perfectly translating" it to make it say whatever I want? </p><p></p><p>Sorry, but "Hey guys, I saw this angel, and I did this thing, and now all the evidence is gone and hidden forever. But don't worry, my closest friends and family members will all back me up on this!" doesn't wow me. I wanna be <em>wow</em>'d</p><p></p><p>Do you have anything more... recent? Anything where people die, or are miraculously healed? Like the biblical prophets?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's convenient. Gives the LDS lots of plausible deniability, so that they can both claim to be prophets, and not really do anything at the same time.</p><p></p><p>I agree with you about the emphasis, and that's similar to what I'd say if someone asked me why we don't see God's miracles today. I just think that you (generally) end up painting yourself between a rock and a hard place when you start claiming to be capable, or a conduit, of supernatural acts. You get asked to prove it, and then you can't demonstrate anything of substance, to the disappointment or exact expectation of the interrogator.</p><p></p><p>It's the same story with everybody who claims to be capable of such things, isn't it? From the outside looking in, I see no differences between the LDS "miracles" and, say, Scientology's miracles.</p><p></p><p>It would be better to keep it a secret, so that you don't get called out on it. Keep all the miracles internal, and only let the really devoted in on it. If you're going to tout miracles, then do them openly, like the biblical prophets did. Either have your cake or get off the pot.</p><p></p><p>But I'm still open to being wowed. After all, I believe in biblical miracles, so it's not like I'm totally opposed to the concept.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Houseman, post: 4145, member: 7"] I don't consider that to be very impressive, since that happened over a hundred years ago, and since it's based on what is largely his own word. I mean, he was explicitly commanded to not show the plates to anyone else, right? And you can't say that anything was "perfectly translated" unless you can verify it. What's to stop me from making up gibberish, claiming that's it's some ancient language, and "perfectly translating" it to make it say whatever I want? Sorry, but "Hey guys, I saw this angel, and I did this thing, and now all the evidence is gone and hidden forever. But don't worry, my closest friends and family members will all back me up on this!" doesn't wow me. I wanna be [i]wow[/i]'d Do you have anything more... recent? Anything where people die, or are miraculously healed? Like the biblical prophets? That's convenient. Gives the LDS lots of plausible deniability, so that they can both claim to be prophets, and not really do anything at the same time. I agree with you about the emphasis, and that's similar to what I'd say if someone asked me why we don't see God's miracles today. I just think that you (generally) end up painting yourself between a rock and a hard place when you start claiming to be capable, or a conduit, of supernatural acts. You get asked to prove it, and then you can't demonstrate anything of substance, to the disappointment or exact expectation of the interrogator. It's the same story with everybody who claims to be capable of such things, isn't it? From the outside looking in, I see no differences between the LDS "miracles" and, say, Scientology's miracles. It would be better to keep it a secret, so that you don't get called out on it. Keep all the miracles internal, and only let the really devoted in on it. If you're going to tout miracles, then do them openly, like the biblical prophets did. Either have your cake or get off the pot. But I'm still open to being wowed. After all, I believe in biblical miracles, so it's not like I'm totally opposed to the concept. [/QUOTE]
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