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What does it truly mean to be a Christian?
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<p>[QUOTE="Kaleion, post: 10450, member: 13"]</p><p>Very well then, I don't think it's worth arguing the content of the scriptures, as we would have to get into the old and tired argument of it's source which I'm pretty sure we're all aware of by this point and perfectly explains the reason for a lot of inconsistencies in the bible, also I think we can all agree that there are some genuinely good lessons that the scriptures do teach and which you won't find me arguing against, like ever.</p><p></p><p>That being said there's also the issue that the last time I read it I was like 15 and doing so for a test and since I dislike religion so much I don't really have one at hand I can't really investigate it, that being said I do admit that I've been considering getting one to give it a read, as while I'm not really interested in the faith nor am I in poking holes in it I feel like now that I'm more mature I would probably be able to learn both some history and Philosphy of worth from it, since while I don't believe for a second that Jesus was the son of God, from what I recall now that I'm no longer an edgy teen it seems like a lot of his Philosophy actually strikes close to the one I ended up arriving to now that I'm some form of "New age hippie" according to my co-workers.</p><p></p><p>In any case, while I don't doubt for a second that you truly believe that and that it's likely that many, if not most Christians truly believe that they are being kind and doing the right thing to better themselves that doesn't necessarily make that Christianity, after all whether you like it or not even protestant cells of Christianity such as Mormons and the aforementioned 7th-Day Adventist church have a hierarchy, and it's that people on the upper levels of the hierarchy (Agnostics excluded I guess) that get to dictate the Christian behaviour, and whether you consider it a corruption of Christian values or not true Christian Dogma it doesn't change the fact that those people in the upper levels of the hierarchy are using their platform to promote messages of intolerance and hate, whether we talk about the subtly implied anti-homosexual stance of the Pope (He's gotten really good at saying it without directly saying it), the openly hostility against the whole LGBTQ community that I got to witness in the Seventh-Day Adventist Church or open hate and call for cleansing in more extreme groups like the Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK (Extra ironic considering Jesus was most definitely not white), the fact of the matter is that modern day Christianity is unfortunately a pretext to exclude groups of people and encourage violence against those same groups, quite ironic since if I do remember one thing about the Bible is that Jesus didn't really stand for that but unfortunately hypocrisy seems to be a major component of modern day Christianity, though admittedly it's been there for a really long time.</p><p></p><p>Anyway I guess my point is, that when people talk about this kind off thing, defending their stance on Christianity all their doing is justifying to themselves why it is OK to still support the Church that they believe in, but nothing more, an empty gesture to say "Not all Christians are bad" without really doing anything about it, it's not like the people that say these things like you for example have any intention to form a new protestant sect that actively endorses these core-beliefs of Christianity.</p><p></p><p>That being said there are Congregations of Christianity that do openly oppose this hate, unfortunately for the most part these congregations are part of a larger church that still promotes those same hateful hypocritical messages, so even supporting a lot of these ends up supporting monetarily the same cause that they oppose, and from the admittedly little research I did there doesn't seem to be any large Church that as a whole opposes these values.</p><p></p><p>In any case sorry if I was too judgemental, I kinda feel like I was, but I must state I seriously hate the Church while I was there I did meet some nice people but the vast majority of my experiences with it were miserable, so I do have a huge bias against the Church, to the point that I will admit it's probably impossible for me to be convinced it's a good thing. </p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="Something that I typed to vent I guess, I'm not sure."]</p><p>This was originally part of the previous paragraph but I decided to cut it, but after that I decided that I must have typed it for a reason and decided to leave it in, it's not necessarily relevant to the discussion though.</p><p></p><p>Especially since though I wasn't gay, I am very much asexual (Admittedly I didn't accept it until very recently) so I never really showed interest in girls on top of being a very girly looking boy, so I didn't have the best of time with them since they were often trying to wash my brain to stop being gay, that rock was satanic and to stop doubting the bible so much, seriously since it was a religious school I wasn't allowed to do the tests until I listened to 30 minute personalised lecture as to why I was was the absolute worst and everything I thought was wrong, and on top of that required to agree with them so they'd let me go which left me like 15 minutes to actually do tests, fortunately I tended to ace tests despite all that bullshit, but you know it was absolutely miserable, not to mention confusing since I didn't like boys at all but since they convinced me I did I ended up in some pretty bad situations that I don't really want to talk about, not to mention that since they labelled me the satanic gay kid everyone at school hated me, so I didn't really have any friends since even "nice" people would turn on me whenever the crowd called for a punching bag, and since even before then I was already a very socially awkward kid it fucked me up so bad that even after dropping out of school and leaving home it took me a very long time before I could even talk with people again, seriously on my first job they thought I was retarded because I communicated mostly through gestures despite being obviously able to talk, but they were fine with it because I got the job done, I did get better though and nowadays I'm mostly functional even if I'm still depressed all the time.[/SPOILER]</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Kaleion, post: 10450, member: 13"] Very well then, I don't think it's worth arguing the content of the scriptures, as we would have to get into the old and tired argument of it's source which I'm pretty sure we're all aware of by this point and perfectly explains the reason for a lot of inconsistencies in the bible, also I think we can all agree that there are some genuinely good lessons that the scriptures do teach and which you won't find me arguing against, like ever. That being said there's also the issue that the last time I read it I was like 15 and doing so for a test and since I dislike religion so much I don't really have one at hand I can't really investigate it, that being said I do admit that I've been considering getting one to give it a read, as while I'm not really interested in the faith nor am I in poking holes in it I feel like now that I'm more mature I would probably be able to learn both some history and Philosphy of worth from it, since while I don't believe for a second that Jesus was the son of God, from what I recall now that I'm no longer an edgy teen it seems like a lot of his Philosophy actually strikes close to the one I ended up arriving to now that I'm some form of "New age hippie" according to my co-workers. In any case, while I don't doubt for a second that you truly believe that and that it's likely that many, if not most Christians truly believe that they are being kind and doing the right thing to better themselves that doesn't necessarily make that Christianity, after all whether you like it or not even protestant cells of Christianity such as Mormons and the aforementioned 7th-Day Adventist church have a hierarchy, and it's that people on the upper levels of the hierarchy (Agnostics excluded I guess) that get to dictate the Christian behaviour, and whether you consider it a corruption of Christian values or not true Christian Dogma it doesn't change the fact that those people in the upper levels of the hierarchy are using their platform to promote messages of intolerance and hate, whether we talk about the subtly implied anti-homosexual stance of the Pope (He's gotten really good at saying it without directly saying it), the openly hostility against the whole LGBTQ community that I got to witness in the Seventh-Day Adventist Church or open hate and call for cleansing in more extreme groups like the Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK (Extra ironic considering Jesus was most definitely not white), the fact of the matter is that modern day Christianity is unfortunately a pretext to exclude groups of people and encourage violence against those same groups, quite ironic since if I do remember one thing about the Bible is that Jesus didn't really stand for that but unfortunately hypocrisy seems to be a major component of modern day Christianity, though admittedly it's been there for a really long time. Anyway I guess my point is, that when people talk about this kind off thing, defending their stance on Christianity all their doing is justifying to themselves why it is OK to still support the Church that they believe in, but nothing more, an empty gesture to say "Not all Christians are bad" without really doing anything about it, it's not like the people that say these things like you for example have any intention to form a new protestant sect that actively endorses these core-beliefs of Christianity. That being said there are Congregations of Christianity that do openly oppose this hate, unfortunately for the most part these congregations are part of a larger church that still promotes those same hateful hypocritical messages, so even supporting a lot of these ends up supporting monetarily the same cause that they oppose, and from the admittedly little research I did there doesn't seem to be any large Church that as a whole opposes these values. In any case sorry if I was too judgemental, I kinda feel like I was, but I must state I seriously hate the Church while I was there I did meet some nice people but the vast majority of my experiences with it were miserable, so I do have a huge bias against the Church, to the point that I will admit it's probably impossible for me to be convinced it's a good thing. [SPOILER="Something that I typed to vent I guess, I'm not sure."] This was originally part of the previous paragraph but I decided to cut it, but after that I decided that I must have typed it for a reason and decided to leave it in, it's not necessarily relevant to the discussion though. Especially since though I wasn't gay, I am very much asexual (Admittedly I didn't accept it until very recently) so I never really showed interest in girls on top of being a very girly looking boy, so I didn't have the best of time with them since they were often trying to wash my brain to stop being gay, that rock was satanic and to stop doubting the bible so much, seriously since it was a religious school I wasn't allowed to do the tests until I listened to 30 minute personalised lecture as to why I was was the absolute worst and everything I thought was wrong, and on top of that required to agree with them so they'd let me go which left me like 15 minutes to actually do tests, fortunately I tended to ace tests despite all that bullshit, but you know it was absolutely miserable, not to mention confusing since I didn't like boys at all but since they convinced me I did I ended up in some pretty bad situations that I don't really want to talk about, not to mention that since they labelled me the satanic gay kid everyone at school hated me, so I didn't really have any friends since even "nice" people would turn on me whenever the crowd called for a punching bag, and since even before then I was already a very socially awkward kid it fucked me up so bad that even after dropping out of school and leaving home it took me a very long time before I could even talk with people again, seriously on my first job they thought I was retarded because I communicated mostly through gestures despite being obviously able to talk, but they were fine with it because I got the job done, I did get better though and nowadays I'm mostly functional even if I'm still depressed all the time.[/SPOILER] [/QUOTE]
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